As COVID-19 cases spike many people enter 2022 in some kind of quarantine, a conversation about community and connecting across a digital space feels like just what the doctor ordered. Ashley Sumner's original concept for Quilt was all about meeting up in person — almost an Airbnb for conversations. But shortly after launch, the universe threw a wrench in the works, as a global pandemic shut down or severely limited in-person interaction almost everywhere, particularly among strangers connecting for the first time. Quilt made a pivot into the suddenly crowded social audio space, but Ashley explains how it kept its core focus and differentiation in the process.
As COVID-19 cases spike many people enter 2022 in some kind of quarantine, a conversation about community and connecting across a digital space feels like just what the doctor ordered. Ashley Sumner's original concept for Quilt was all about meeting up in person — almost an Airbnb for conversations. But shortly after launch, the universe threw a wrench in the works, as a global pandemic shut down or severely limited in-person interaction almost everywhere, particularly among strangers connecting for the first time. Quilt made a pivot into the suddenly crowded social audio space, but Ashley explains how it kept its core focus and differentiation in the process.
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Darrell Etherington 0:00
Hey, I'm Darrell Etherington. Welcome to found I'm here with my fellow seamstress. Seamster. I don't know what the I don't think there's a gender neutral term for that. For what? Cuz that seems the name of the startup. Ah, cuz it's cool. Yeah. Yeah, that one. Yeah. I was looking for the gender neutral one, but there was I don't think there is one.
Jordan Crook 0:23
Yeah. Okay. Well, thanks. Jordan crook.
Darrell Etherington 0:29
This week, our guests on unfound is Ashley Sumner, who is the CEO and founder of quilt, which is a social network that originally began as like a real life real space social network designed for small groups to get together basically people's houses, right. Is that Is that right? Jordan?
Jordan Crook 0:50
Yeah. The OG social network, which was just hanging out with people IRL, yes. But like, you know, she used some technology to let people coordinate that, and the COVID hit, and she leaned into audio. And it's become this really interesting kind of like, health, wellness self care community where people can just like, talk openly and candidly about what it is they're struggling with what it is, they're excited about big decisions in their lives, you know, can be kind of small stuff. It can be big stuff, and it's pretty interesting seems to be growing. It's a cool platform. And she's a cool founder.
Darrell Etherington 1:24
Yes, very cool founder, you can tell how her values are reflected in the values that she's trying to espouse with quill with the social network. So it's, it's, you may think, like, oh, you hear audio social network, and you've obviously heard of other ones like clubhouse being the buzziest in recent memory, right. But it's so different from everything out there, which is essentially a clubhouse. And it's millions of clones by all the legacy social media companies. All those are, basically, let's look at existing social media, and then just translate that into an audio, real time audio format,
Jordan Crook 1:59
meaning it brings all of the worst things about social media with it often, right? Just like this metric based user validation, popularity contest stuff, and quilt is not in that ballgame at all. So while it feels maybe like it belongs in that same category, I think the truth is that it it's doing something pretty unique and different,
Darrell Etherington 2:21
you know, you don't have to take our word for it. We're about to get into this conversation with Ashley here. And she explains it much better than I ever could meet you. But one thing before we jump into that, I do want to remind folks, you can actually connect with us and form a real sense of community with us. You can be audio, by the way, via audio. Exactly. You can leave us a voicemail, I have 510-936-1618 That's 510-936-1618. And you can call us and let us know how it's going with your startup. How your founder experiences going, what challenges you've encountered, what great successes you've had recently, whatever you want, basically, you know, keep it PG well don't use big just
Jordan Crook 3:05
clean relative it. Yeah, relevant. Relevant. Nice way to put it, because Lord knows, yes, keep it clean.
Darrell Etherington 3:12
So it can be blue, but also relevant. Anyway, anyways, do that. But also listen to this episode. We had a great time talking to Ashley and I think you'll enjoy it also. Hey, Ashley, thanks for joining us.
Ashley Sumner 3:33
Thank you for having me.
Darrell Etherington 3:34
It's great. I know that Jordan, who is also here Hey, Jordan, sup, dawg. I spoken to you already for an article for the website right about quilts. Yes,
Jordan Crook 3:46
we go way back like Yeah, way back. Friends.
Darrell Etherington 3:49
That's the basis of a good friendship. Yeah. Interviewing. I read the article with great interest. And you know, I checked out quilt, as well. And super cool. You know, I think one of the really interesting things for us, and this is maybe putting the cart ahead of the horse, but like the fact that you had to change directions, especially during a crazy time for everybody. But that's super interesting to me. But I do want to start with just kind of like a general description of quill so people know what it is and what you're CEO of, like,
Ashley Sumner 4:25
why am I the CEO of a conversation with a friend the other day that it's like, I get to be a CEO, like it's a verb of the actions I take every day. So yeah, okay, so I really think of quilt as a first of its kind wellness platform. It's very much focused around improving you know, the lives of millions of people through the efforts of finding and creating community and we take this lens that audio is an incredible tool to hear one another to be seen by one another to be supported by one another in conversation. It's a cool new feature that's very like hot on the market. And it's exciting because we're seeing just how impactful it can be when utilized effectively and community and like supportive conversations, just bringing people together to have those conversations and hearing one another no matter where they are in the world. So that's quote,
Darrell Etherington 5:19
me and Jordan obviously agree, but the value of audio, although we usually use this platform to like, make each other feel worse, and then, but make our guests feel great, so don't worry about that part.
Jordan Crook 5:29
Got it. I'll just be, I'll just be witness to the two of you. Our wellness campaign is really focused on self deprecation. And
Ashley Sumner 5:41
I think humor is actually a really important part of feeling good. So only we
Jordan Crook 5:45
were funny. Yeah, that would
Ashley Sumner 5:54
make ourselves laugh, you know, that's the point, right?
Darrell Etherington 5:57
I think that is the whole point. Listeners, please continue to listen. But that really is the whole point of
Jordan Crook 6:04
this is just Jordan playtime. Really?
Darrell Etherington 6:09
Actually, I want to talk about why you made quilt. So like, you know, it sounds like a great thing to exist in the world. But like, how did you even start? What like, why did you decide to become an entrepreneur begin with and found a company I
Ashley Sumner 6:22
think I was born kind of with this desire to create things, whether that's companies I was in musical theater, I was a dancer, I'm musician. I'm a writer like I, I just like constantly creating things in the through line to everything I create is really driven by a desire to bring people together from a young age, I definitely felt I have felt and been very attuned to like the mental health crisis that we're in the amount of loneliness that we can feel as people the isolation we can experience and especially over the past 20 years, I've watched how I don't know, technology has played a pretty integral role in fragmenting our communication with one another.
Darrell Etherington 7:03
Yeah, know for sure. And we see that, you know, manager to see that daily as well. Just with the coverage of tech, we saw the arc of like, okay, tech is cool, and it's a connector and then like, hey, maybe it's not so much of a connector, maybe it's actually a divider in a lot of ways, right? So we've seen that arc play out over the same time period you're talking about, right? But
Jordan Crook 7:24
yeah, it's a little bit of everything all of the time.
Darrell Etherington 7:28
That is a good reference to the Bo Burnham special inside, which is not a sponsor, this podcast,
Jordan Crook 7:35
actually talked to us about like, because, okay, obviously, you like creating, but this version of quilt that we know and love today is not what you started with, why don't you tell us what it was originally? And then I would love to know why you wanted to start that way. Like that seems like such a difficult business to scale. It's so in person and up in your face. You know, it's like, yeah, those things are hard. There's so much friction.
Ashley Sumner 7:58
Yeah, yeah, I appreciate that. So my, my background leading up to creating that, like the first kind of expression of quilt was building offline community. So it's like my, you know, I've built social clubs, retreats, festivals, conferences, dining experiences around the country. And I definitely saw like the powerful impact of what bringing people together in small groups could have. The one area that I was really trying to solve with launching quilt was can we replace, you know, this business model around using real estate, which is expensive and exclusive and hard to get to, arguably more friction than, you know, the original, original quilt? And can we use technology as a way to replace some aspects of that and inspire people to want to build their own in person communities out of their homes out of their stores, you know, up and down Main Streets, that kind of thing. So quilt originally launched as a marketplace platform, inspiring people to open up their homes to host shared experiences, have conversations connect with one another locally. And the big takeaway from that, and the honestly, a lot of the feedback that I was oftentimes hearing was, I would quilt for an hour a day if I could, which is getting to your point, Jordan, which is like, Oh, the friction of not being able to get in the car, get there, put a cheese board out or like whatever, whatever those all those little nuances are actually getting in the way from this style of communication and conversation that these people are saying they so greatly need. So the silver lining of last year and the pandemic and kind of quilt essentially, in its original form evaporating in a day, was this forcing function for me to reimagine how can we take what's so pure about the style of communication that I believe everybody needs and translate that to be instant and accessible? That question for me, what's the most frictionless way quilt could evolve? Evolved? into being this instant audio SOCIAL SPACE
Darrell Etherington 10:02
tool. A lot of the stuff you talked about there with with regards to the in person stuff resonates with me like I like it's cool. I really liked American poker to sign up like she used to have like the salons in France or whatever, right when she was like an expat. And then all the intellectuals would come and like gather and like, and that was that seemed cool as hell to me then. I mean, still seems cool, right? But like,
Jordan Crook 10:22
yeah, the idea of a salon is forever sexy. Like, yeah, printed? Yeah. Like, let's get a bunch of smart, fabulous creators together to talk about their thoughts. Super sexy, actually. What am I gonna say, you know, like, what are we gonna wear? Like?
Darrell Etherington 10:39
Yeah, and I love the idea of making it something that like anybody can can kind of spin up and like, start and get, like, cool guests to come to like, especially as I mean, maybe this is not everybody's experience. But my experience. And I think a lot of people's experience as you age, you have fewer and fewer close friends, right? And your circles get smaller. And then it's like, okay, like, I'd want to do these cool salons, essentially, but like, I can't do that. I don't know anybody to come. Right. Like it's kind of like that. So yeah, yeah, that's cool. And I do I have friends who who do them around specific things. Like I have a friend Sara best Who did she co founder of dirt internationals her company, but they do like cannabis consumables dinners, right. And she like hosts those and set those up. So it's always been an area of interest. That is really cool that that was where you started. Now, like you mentioned, like, translating it like that must be very difficult, right? Because a lot of that stuff that appeals. And we were talking about, like the way that digital and online technologies have like divided people, right? So how do you like stay Fair of the line and like, take the good stuff that you want to just start there and then bring it like, in one way, you had no choice, but you also, obviously don't want to lose the spirit of what you're doing. Right?
Ashley Sumner 11:49
Yeah. Yeah. And I appreciate that question. We have been very thoughtful, and arguably, in the venture capital space slow, about quickly rolling features out, you know, I think back to like the invention of the like button or asynchronous scrolling or the impact photos could have or event inserting advert, like, I understand there's this expectation as a venture backed, you know, tech company, that you're going to speed up and grow exponentially, and then you make really fast decisions. And I don't know how much time is spent thinking through, like, the risks and dependencies of those actions. And so, you know, we've built out our product strategy very specifically around these core pillars of, of inclusivity, of identity of safety, these kind of forcing functions and themes that make us take a step back and try and to the best of our ability, you know, see into the future and think how this could be expressed. So today, you know, quilt launched in the App Store, beginning of February, and we're, it's very simple, it really is, like, come in and get into a live conversation. And now we're starting to evolve. You know, we launched some safety features like, well, in advance of any other social company I've ever seen launch, like safety features. Before kind of my oversights
Darrell Etherington 13:09
afterthought. It's like, okay, we did it because the platform was burning down. So we had, we're seven
Jordan Crook 13:14
years old, and we have 1 billion users, we're launching some safety features.
Ashley Sumner 13:21
You can like retro, retro actively make a community safe, like you're pretty ft by that point. So we've been very methodical and thoughtful about the kinds of tools that we've built in that the ability to bring in nonverbal support and reactions, not just because it feels good, but because you can feel safe if I'm hosting a conversation and someone I don't know comes in, but they put up an ear, or they put up a heart like it can humanize who these people are and give positive feedback loops. So we've been pretty thoughtful like getting in pronouns and making sure people and you know, the ability for phonetic alphabet spelling to have your name pronounced appropriately, you know, incorrectly when it is like all of these cultural nuances that I don't think that I haven't seen no other platforms out there, like quickly trying to get in app calendar out and quickly trying to get, you know, share shareable links out on a web app. So that's really how we've been approaching it. I mean, I'm happy to dig into as many of those things as you want. But
Jordan Crook 14:22
can we talk tactically, actually, because I'm curious about like, okay, you've got this business is growing, right? Like the OG quilt was growing and doing well. And you're like, Okay, this is cool, awesome. And then CNNs, like, Yo, pandemic, like nobody go to anybody's house. Like, what can you paint a picture a little bit about? Like, okay, so you're like, we're gonna go to voice I've made that decision. What happens next, right, like, do you build it? Do you buy it? Like, does the whole team stay on to run that, like, tactically? What was your priority list and like, how did you bang it out quickly, you know?
Ashley Sumner 14:56
Yeah, well, we quickly tested multiple features to see what would translate the in home experience like a living room experience the best and voice one video did not like. So I got to learn that quickly. We also tested 1000s of zooms.
Darrell Etherington 15:12
I'm so curious about what you were your findings were at the video just to not to sidetrack you.
Ashley Sumner 15:18
I know it was some people wanted it on some people didn't You didn't want to be seen and didn't show up? Because they didn't want to have to get ready.
Jordan Crook 15:26
Yeah, that feels like a huge one. I. Darrell, I'm allowed to say that not you. I also feel
Ashley Sumner 15:34
a shirt on right now. But you have no idea what's going on down here? No, yeah, I mean, it's true. You know, there were all of a sudden, we're also in homes and you have kids and people are screaming and you know, you may want to go on a walk, you may want like, and so for me, when I think about quilt being this, like instant support and connection for me, it means anywhere like I quilted, three days ago on a six hour plane for the whole time. I was in the air quilting, like crying because that was awesome as like a founder of this thing where I used to have to like book it two weeks in advance and get ready to show up and like sit there and then you know, I mean, it was just an amazing thing that took place. So there's a lot of friction around being seen. This feels two dimensional, it feels strange. If I want to make eye contact with you, I need to look here, but your face is down there. Like it just was not it didn't feel like the thing. It didn't feel as immersive. And it felt like a conference call. And particularly when we think of like women and people of color, and what what images and video has done with other social platforms and the negative impact it's had with comparison, and othering and shadow banning and what's what's good, what's not good. I was like, I don't want anything to do with that. Like, I just want to, I just want to like sit down and hear someone's voice and like very frightened of me. Like if I am in therapy, I'm like, can I just look up? You know, do we have to make eye contact? Like, let's just be in a conversation and activate our voices and listen to one another and learn how to do that again. So that was that's I mean, I honed in on the voice on the video part, Darrell. But that was it was very, very clear to me. Very pretty within like seven, six or seven weeks.
Darrell Etherington 17:15
Well, for me, it wouldn't be intuitive that it was like because you're translating like a real life experience where that's part of it. But it's totally different context, right? It's like people are know that as a part of it. And it's it's like it's different. The way that you prepare for that it's different the way you think about that versus sitting in this TV thing. Also, there's a side note, actually is just totally dismantled all of our thinking behind why we do these podcasts like video. With audio recording, it's like we do it for a sense of interpersonal Okay, now I'm like, maybe we shouldn't be doing this because there's all these doubts.
Jordan Crook 17:47
We do it because we interrupt each other too much.
Darrell Etherington 17:49
That's really you can visually Shut up.
Ashley Sumner 17:54
This is so great example though. This is why we built in thought bubbles, like a hey, I'd like to speak next bubbles and ear emojis because people can speak over one another and now people will put a thought bubble kind of up that's like, Hey, I'd like to speak next. Or an ear that's like I'm just here chillin don't call on me. That's important because we don't have
Jordan Crook 18:16
this body language to say like, I'm about to jump in. Yeah, like,
Darrell Etherington 18:21
you know
Jordan Crook 18:30
we're talking about a voice platform or on a video platform and the listeners are voice only. Like everybody's
Ashley Sumner 18:36
behind. Yeah, love. We're good podcast. So this this speed, though to be like, okay, voice is really the thing, self care oriented, wellness oriented, support oriented, just having heart centered conversations, which, you know, sometimes I'm like, is that Whoo, I'm like, No, that's actually the thing the world needs is like less judgement, more curiosity, sharing from experience less expertise, less people trying to, like get Insta famous, you know, not a mission to be a creator. It's like, just literally being in a conversation with one another. So I have I have a team. You know, I have, you know, both the product technology and kind of marketing side that was with me with one point no, they're still very much with me. It was like definitely a race to get this out and an opportunity to get funding so that the team got to stay intact. And you know, we've been hiring and growing now, which is amazing. But with a very small team, we kind of built a beta test of you know, Join Instant live audio group calls, and started welcoming on kind of handpicking and welcoming on people who like I definitely believe honor the values of having curious, heart centered conversations like understand the mechanics of sharing from a place of vulnerability, leading with honesty not shaming others with language not you know victimizing with language, active listening, you know, repeating back what they heard. So someone feels safe and seen and heard like the first 100 people on the platform were handpicked, because I personally have like, interacted with them and felt that with them feels
Jordan Crook 20:19
like you missed an invitation. And it feels like she was just describing me Darrell like my conversational style. Oh, yeah. Just like all that empathy.
Ashley Sumner 20:30
Months later, Jordan. We went really deep months later.
Jordan Crook 20:36
We did we did and I still never gotten an invitation but it's open now. Another example of my conversational style, just being really good at myself.
Ashley Sumner 20:53
We're all people are welcome. I just want everyone here listening to know that.
Jordan Crook 21:01
They're Oh, wait, you played with it? Like, what was that? Like? Did you go into a conversation?
Darrell Etherington 21:05
Yeah, but I mean, not for very long. I just wanted to see what it was like the like, so that mean, the obvious contrast is clubhouse right. But like, oh, that which we shall not name? Yeah. But I am so personally exhausted by clubhouse at this point. And this is, this is very much not that in all the best ways, right. So like, that is where I really enjoyed it. And I think like part of it, what you said there actually was like, the creator thing to me is like, almost inextricable from the way that these platforms quickly derail or the way that most social platforms these days, I would say derail like, it's because there's such a focus on that. And you see, you understand why because the Creator thing provides a great growth marketing lever for these companies to push, right. It's like, if I get big names on then that will draw additional users or whatever. But it also instantly makes the thing of competition and a popularity contest. And something that is by nature, exhausting, especially if you spent a lot of your life on social media. Right. So I think that to me is like, what is most interesting and most appealing about the platform. And I think it's great that you it sounds like you've done that very intentionally from the beginning, right. And like, I like the amount of intent in general that you put into it. Because also seeing that, like personally handpicking, that user group to begin with is also a tremendous amount of work counterintuitive in terms of how a lot of social networks build their early hype, right? They just want to build a hunger and then kind of gate access, but like not like going around talking to people individually and saying, like, Are you the right thing, but like, it builds such a great foundation upon which you would hope, like begets like, and then like the rest of the community shapes around that and understands those morals and values, right. So that's like, it's just like, oh, hearing you talk about how to build this and with intention and stuff is so dramatically opposed to how I've heard the many teen boy founder, whatever. bazillionaire like, Yes, they've made lots of money now. But
Jordan Crook 23:05
the thing about like,
Darrell Etherington 23:09
we talked, we talked to these guys all the time.
Jordan Crook 23:14
Oh my god, I caught him in the right moment. Did you see him get fired up there for a second? Actually mad? I got him right when he was peeking. Great. Yeah, I know who you're talking about. It is very different. And I also feel like probably Ashley, like your investors. You know, you're like, in the venture world. We go slow. Like we're really thoughtful. And I've actually talked to one of your investors who is that
Ashley Sumner 23:37
Rishi? Yeah, yeah. For me. Mayfield Fund. Really? He's amazing.
Jordan Crook 23:42
Yeah, he's like, I didn't want to take the call. And we got on the phone. I was like, Thank God, You're
Ashley Sumner 23:47
genius. He's incredibly refreshing human being. Oh, I
Jordan Crook 23:51
can make feel this very, like double bottom line. So I assume that they like are pretty chill with you guys. But yeah, like, I assume that there have to be poops on the cap table. I don't know why. So. Yeah, just roll with who you know, are like, make some money, like, grow faster. Like, why are you so worried about everybody safety? Like, we don't do that in social? Like, are you getting pressure from people and how are you talking them down? And, and staying the course?
Ashley Sumner 24:24
Yeah, you know, I I'm really grateful for our cap table, you know, to the same the same amount of attention that I put towards handpicking the first people in anytime I like build a community, which are our investors, stakeholders, shareholders. Everyone's like a part of the ecosystem here and the community and I have spent so much one on one time with each person and I don't feel like I've had to hide any parts of myself, right? Like I'm deeply spiritual, arguably would be called woowoo. Like, I want to heal the world through conscious conversations, right? And they all really get that and understand that in So far, it seems to me that they trust my plan, I have a plan. And you know, they know the plan. And I have a really good counter argument to seeing the negative impact of, of really, really fast growth without driving community involvement and engagement over time, when you think about the expense of the number of lawsuits many of those companies have, right, there's like a lot of line items that, you know, we don't see because we see, oh, you know, it got to 10 million people overnight, and you're like, but then there's like a Trail of Tears sitting behind that, that you have to hire around and build up. And now you're spending more money on moderation teams and trying trying to like, you know, put a bandaid over like some major, major like gouge in someone's arm, it's not gonna work. So it's a slightly different approach. Ultimately, we are growing and starting to grow. But it's been very methodical because I don't believe a community can be successful unless people understand specifically what those values are. Want to honor and live those values, understand what happens when they don't and feel like they have a role in the overall success of it versus like being angry when it's just a platform and not actually a community. So I'm, you know, I have a plan, obviously, we want that plan to work and we're in we're, you know, in phase one of said plan, but if if my kind of counterculture vision for what a new type of social platform could look like, I think will be very successful, and everyone will make money, but the result will be a lot of people will feel a whole lot less alone.
Jordan Crook 26:38
What is the plan? Tell us all the
Ashley Sumner 26:42
plan. I just said plan. That plan I know, well, no more just watch quilts. Like just you know, you just see quilt and every time something comes out, or, you know, bite me
Jordan Crook 26:56
and tell me about? We want to know the plan, man. I know. Wait. So like in the in the community safety, like growing slow methodology? Like, have you had any moments on the platform like early on where you're like, Oh, this is bad. Like, this gives us something new to think about? Or is it just like, Ben, it's hard for me to believe it's been fully smooth sailing, no matter how much intentionality you bring to it. Right? It's like, there's always something right, like tugging at the edge. Yeah, I just wonder like, what are those experiences? Like? And how do you guys like kind of rally around those situations to resolve them?
Ashley Sumner 27:36
Yeah, you know, I've been, I mean, I don't know if I'm just like a naturally hopeful person. But I'm very grateful for the experiences that have happened, because we've had, I can count on one hand, how many things have happened, they all have been very different use cases that let us as a team Orient, make sure the policy is tight, and like have a process that we're going to, you know, processes as an experiment in and of itself, but that we can be like, Okay, we have, you know, someone is on the platform, and they are going through a mental health experience that is above anybody's capacity to hold space for this on this platform. What are the steps that we take? And what is the community do to know that it's not their place to hold space for that person, we want to get that person the support that they need? Because this is a peer to peer experience? And, you know, we want to make sure so we linked in mental health resources, we went into training, so hosts really understood like, how to use the tools, what language to say, how to support them in that moment, you know, make sure that they were, you know, getting off the phone picking up a phone calling this person or this hotline for support. So we had these different use cases to think through. Okay, what is this experience, like, I am a very big advocate for not believing that what safety looks like is the same for one person. So we, as we as a company are going to solve everybody's need to feel safe, right? There's, I mean, there's a lot of trauma, we're in a completely traumatized world right now, there's a lot of triggering, I can't foresee every single little nuance that's going to trigger someone, but we can give the the company and the community kind of agency to understand like what it means to make it feel safe for me right now that like I'm in charge of that experience. And I can leave this conversation or this sub community, I can start my own if what I need right now is to primarily spend time in conversation with other women. You know, that's what I'd like to be in that I can do that. So we've been able to think through these handful of moments, to be really clear on what are our policies, how do we show up to these things? What does education look like? I really feel strongly that it's about much more about education than like, you know, shaming someone or doing three strikes. policies are anything that doesn't actually do any form of growth work. So it's it's definitely ongoing and something that we spend a huge part of our time thinking about, which again, I think is pretty new for the stage of business that we're in.
Darrell Etherington 30:17
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Ashley Sumner 31:11
Already said I want cool to be like I wake up in the morning. And I quilt I don't do them scroll. Like, you know, it's the shifting in a daily practice. And if someone is in a moment and feeling a feeling, and they choose to go to quilt over anything else, I think that's like, or maybe they would have never gone to anyone else. That's I think of quote as like preventative care, versus like on the other end of policing and structure and building a wall and saying no and shutting down and judging,
Jordan Crook 31:42
actually, you mentioned processes. And I bring this up because we we recorded a two shows yesterday, I think Man, we've been busy. But one one of the guests that we were talking to is talking about processes and like how you build them into a business like for example with hiring or like, here's how we go about our sales or like, here's our product development process, or whatever it might be. I'm just like curious how you think about that. Because it was very insightful, I think to be like, I can't figure out every nuance, but I can like kind of lay a baseline or like a structure that helps people feel safe. When it comes to like running a business. What are you because we have founders that come on and say like, none until we need it. And we have others that come on and are like, yeah, it was like the third day of the company. And I sat down and wrote a manifesto on like, this is how we're going to do everything when we're 100 people. And it's like, there's like a spectrum there. I'm just wondering how you think about that, when you're like leaving a company like,
Ashley Sumner 32:39
I am definitely a recovering perfectionist when by way of like, I want to have the answer now. And I want to build it all now. And I'm not going to do anything like until it's there. I I actually do feel recovered from that. And what I'm going to describe is the thing that's helped me, I'm really grateful. I have advisors and investors that have talents that I learned from every day. And one of them. His name is Eros, you you know, he was the CMO CEO of discord. He's an investor in quilt, you know, he's an advisor that I talked to weekly. And something that I've really learned to uncover with him is this framework that's very helpful for me, as far as like how to phase process through an experimental mindset. And so I might say, Okay, well, we're hiring, which we are, you know, engineers, data science, like we're just hiring. And I just want it like, I can move really fast, I like to move really fast. And I've had to learn to be like, okay, slow down in form, and then go move really fast. And so part of this process is like we're hiring in this new way for the first time. And it's in an alpha stage, like it's, it's the very, very bare bones, it's written down, we're going to go and do this. And on the other side of this sprint, around hiring, let's, let's talk about how that went. And then if there's ways to evolve it, because things worked, it would then become like a beta process, and do the same thing. And if it's really working, it's ready to really scale. And like you can just kind of run with it. And so this has been my I like light process in the beginning, just so that you can keep moving. And then as you grow, you start obviously adding in different layers to it. So I, I do believe in doing the work upfront around maybe having a manifesto so that every time the firt like your founding team, those first 10 Should and there should be enough of a hive mind to understand like, this is the culture that we're building here. This is what we stand for. This is what we care about. This is what onboarding looks like. And we are going through that phase of the alpha for this evolution of quilt like as we speak.
Darrell Etherington 34:54
Yeah, I guess it's similar to the agile approach right of like, you do the thing test your post and Hello, they're post mortems or whatever. And then they build up the learnings and go forward and iterate. Right? But like, it's funny, Jordan, what do you think our process is more like, hey, we did this thing. I guess it's perfect. No one has already.
Jordan Crook 35:17
We just did it.
Darrell Etherington 35:18
Let's continue doing it that way.
Jordan Crook 35:23
We should maybe build some more processes. I feel like every time I tried to build a process at TechCrunch, people were like, I am allergic to that, and I hate it. And I'm like, Okay, let's just go back to doing whatever the hell we want. Cool.
Darrell Etherington 35:35
It really feels good to do that. But it sounds like you're bringing people in who are already doing that. Right? Like, have you had any issues? You know, especially as you're growing the company where you're like, oh, like we are, we try to do our best for like, fit and for like suitability for sort of the way that we want to process things. But then what happens when you encounter challenges? And how do you kind of resolve those? And how has that been for you like learning how to kind of like, manage a growing organization and manage, you know, real human beings who
Jordan Crook 36:00
are people? Yeah, they're impossible. It's a lot of
Ashley Sumner 36:03
work. It's, I mean, it is, it's a lot of work. And it's a lot of my job, you know, I, I'm like, Oh, I had that list of 23 things I wanted to do today, but I spent the day talking to like people, because it's also my job to like, unstuck someone so that they can do their job. And the management of managing other people's expectations and priorities and feelings on top of like, navigating my own as like a newer CEO, is definitely it's, it takes up a lot of time and space, and it's the area I've been kind of actively seeking to grow in the most right now. The one thing that has just been the most helpful for me has been like, just like picking up the phone and having a conversation. Like not assuming I understand what's going like just going like direct to the source and not being awkward and not being like sidestep be and not wanting to try to manage someone else's feelings, because I really don't ever want anyone whose feelings to feel hurt, which is like, probably my biggest area of growth, just being able to directly communicate what is happening or inquire and ask questions so that it doesn't turn into this like whole thing. That's my area that I've been spending, you know, a lot of time in recently,
Jordan Crook 37:18
if you want to write like a little memo on like, how to be good that color.
Unknown Speaker 37:25
Keep for your personal use journal.
Jordan Crook 37:27
Course. Yeah. I feel like I spent a lot of time managing people's feelings instead of being like, just don't do this anymore.
Ashley Sumner 37:36
Like, we're all we're all different, right? I mean, and that's kind of the big thing. I oftentimes like to like, Mike just do the work. You know, like, we're here. We're aligned. We love the purpose of this, we're inspired by it. I know that about you. Like just roll up the sleeves and do the work. Right. I don't have the areas I don't have, like a whole lot of patience for is by way of like, reactive kind of chaos making. There's a saying that I really like which is like there's two types of people. Someone who's in the stands someone who's on the field and that riots start in the stands, right, like just be on the field. Be part of like the problem and the solution but just be in it, versus commenting on it reacting to it pointing the finger at you know, side gossip, like any form of like toxic feminine or masculine energy just drives me deeply, deeply bonkers. so
Jordan Crook 38:30
deeply bonkers is deeply deeply bond. Deeply bonkers.
Darrell Etherington 38:35
Look, here's the fun word. But also, I'm serious. Very serious.
Jordan Crook 38:41
Anyway, though, like, it drives me deeply, deeply. What's gonna come next.
Ashley Sumner 38:46
Bonkers. Yeah, you're gonna use bonkers now in the next week I
Jordan Crook 38:51
exist. I'm existing bonkers user. I'm here.
Unknown Speaker 38:57
Thank you hard to find our type.
Jordan Crook 39:00
This but I also feel like our type is growing because a lot of the words we used to use casually that might equate to bonkers are feeling less and less appropriate.
Darrell Etherington 39:09
But when you encounter that, like in person, like how do you kind of deal with it in the moment, right, like, let's say you're in a meeting, and that kind of thing comes up right? Like what's your like, tips for like, dismantling it or diffusing it? Like I see like
Jordan Crook 39:23
slamming your fist down standing. Yeah, pointing. Yeah,
Ashley Sumner 39:28
I do come across like that, don't I? Yeah.
Jordan Crook 39:31
You're like, you seem really
Ashley Sumner 39:39
abrasive yeller. Yeah, I'm demeaning my language. I mean, as I like, lean in, there's like a heart tattoo on my, I put this because sometimes people will be talking and we'll just be like, showing them my heart. You know, like, I have a heart tattooed on my wrist
Jordan Crook 39:54
right? Like, emotional ASMR right now like the opposite of power.
Unknown Speaker 40:02
Yeah, I mean, I definitely can go through an experience of being like, when something seems like it's getting a lot more complicated than it needs to, I will get frustrated. And I oftentimes now will like, I'll take a deep breath. Like, I'll ask questions. Seeking to understand has been the most helpful tip for me, not assuming I just heard something that was something other than what it was. Miscommunication is like, I mean, again, I have a conversation platform, I want to tackle fragmented communication driven by technology. It starts with the team. And so inquiring and asking questions, so that I can really, like really understand what's going on and then navigate, is this a conversation that should happen? Because we're all on here and going to benefit from it? Can this just be something I send in Slack? Do I need to pick up the phone and have a one on one starting to kind of categorize? You know, is it something that needs to be addressed? I mean, candidly, right now, or like a month from now, I used to want to address everything right now. And then I'd realize like, like, the work doesn't get done, if you want to just keep addressing everything and cracking open everything. So yeah, so sometimes I know that I'm like, I'm gonna just let that exist for three more months.
Jordan Crook 41:17
And like, it's amazing what will resolve itself like not that that should be your default, right? But like, this is something I learned from Panzer and now employ probably like too much to be honest, but like Panzer used to just like not answer. And I don't think it was because he was busy or couldn't see, although those could be reasons, but it was like, you could figure it out. You know what I mean? Like? And if it's still a question tomorrow, we'll figure it out together. But like, you could probably do it like, don't wait on me. And it's amazing the number of things that can kind of like, sort themselves without immediate attention.
Unknown Speaker 41:49
Yeah, I mean, I have noticed, I think sometimes it can be easy to think that like, if I'm not going to respond to something that like, it's not a strategic decision, right, right. But it's also just a strategic decision. You know, like, I'm the only I am the only person at quilt that knows everything, right? So there has to be trust that I know everything like that all the moving pieces, what this person is doing over there, like, it's my job, to see that and to make linear and nonlinear connections between pieces. And so I do think it's important to have at least the trust in place that somebody knows, like, Okay, if this person has responded, she's getting back to me the next day, or we're not talking about this, like, there's, there's a reason.
Jordan Crook 42:32
So I think we are probably running low ish on time. But one of the questions I wanted to ask you is like, what causes you the most stress like, you are managing a company that's growing like a team in a space that like, requires a level head, right, like you, you do need to be like you said, like, I need to be aware of my own emotions and how I'm feeling as a newish CEO.
Unknown Speaker 42:55
Also, you mentioned, it's a very, like, there's a lot of activity, and that has both positive and negative, like, it's positive in that people are paying attention to it and want to invest, but it's also negative and that there's a high degree of competition, right? And a lot of potential, right? You know, there's attention from Facebook and wherever else even though they just kind of like, paint on like, audio, whatever, their old sign, and they're like, We did it, but
Unknown Speaker 43:19
got you this thing is brand new. We launched that future so fast. Why?
Unknown Speaker 43:28
But yeah, like, I guess to back to journalists point, like what is, you know, what's, I guess, the most stressful?
Jordan Crook 43:34
Yeah, yeah. Like, and how do you kind of like recenter yourself and say, like, okay, new day, let's go get
Ashley Sumner 43:41
the most head trash that I've had, which is what I'm calling this, over the past six months is more like this bonkers thing. Which, you know, being a non technical founder of a tech company, I think, just making sure like making sure that I'm up to speed and my understanding of like, if there is somebody who's building a business, who's built many tech companies before, like, their velocity may be naturally faster than mine in the areas that they're an expert in. And if I spend too much time thinking about that, I will feel pretty shitty about myself. If I sit into my own intuitive knowing that I know how to build communities that I understand people, and I'm solving a problem that the world has, and I happen to be using technology to do that. Like all of a sudden, I got a lot calmer and a lot more connected to the plan. And I trust that but it's very easy when people are like, do you see that article, clubhouses, numbers are down, their engagement is dropped. And I'm like, like, like, 45 people sent it to me in the same hour, and I'm like, you know, and I don't I don't have a co founder. You know, I really want to make sure that I'm not giving stress on to the team. They have their own experiences, things that are going on. So just kind of like Managing all of the information coming in, not getting like fully swayed off of just what I really believe to be true. And something I'm excited to be here building. I think I think that that's probably that's, that feels like the most stressful thing is staying, like really trusting that what we're creating here is like so special and so unique and just on its own, it's going to be done differently than how others have done it before. And so there may not be a whole lot of examples. But like, that's okay.
Jordan Crook 45:34
Yeah, there's like a level of comfort that comes from like, especially when you're in a hot space to look left and look right, and be like, Well, the good news is that whether it's good or bad for them, like we're doing something different. So like, whatever, I just need to look at my own numbers, I need to look a lot of comparisons. Yeah, it's easy to me like,
Ashley Sumner 45:53
well, at this point, what was Bob? I'm like, I don't know. Like, this is the vision, this is what's happening. This is how I know it's working this like, it's, you know, I don't know. And so there is some bizarre, sometimes bizarre expectations to like, compare yourself to others vocally. And I'm like, what, I don't know what that serves. To be totally honest. It's like it's unique. And it's its own thing. So I can feel stressed about that, and just managing a heavy amount of inbound information and deciding what to pay attention to and what to just like, let go of
Darrell Etherington 46:29
filter. Yeah. But I think I mean, to your credit, and to the, to the credit of your approach, like it's, if you look at the other ones that we've been talking about, I mean, if you, again, if you do get into comparison situations, like all of them are hyper attenuation of what has proceeded, like, why do people think that that's gonna work? Like we were talking earlier, but the changes and things like everything contextually has changed? So why would why would it make sense to just hyper attenuate what has happened previously, and expect that to also be successful? To me, that doesn't make any sense. That's my whole problem with like, anything going on in this space right now, like social space, generally. So you hear that your approach is very consciously not that at all, to me, would suggest that it will do well, right. But I mean, I don't know anything. And that's why well,
Jordan Crook 47:16
there is. Go us, there is a movement though, like I think, in social, there's like space for the first time for for new social networks. And I think there is like, a general belief among both founders and the public that like, a lot of what we've been doing for the last 10 years has been really bad for us. And so like, there's there is the choice there. And like people are actively considering, like, maybe if I delete Instagram, maybe I put this other cool thing on my phone, like, maybe I'll feel better, you know, yeah, I won't feel like I contributed to 2016. Or maybe I won't, you know, like, whatever it might be. So it's like, there's a space right now. And it's all about, like, what comes out of it and what rises to the top. I also think that there's a really cool, it's not just female founders, but there are so many female founders out there right now that are building like really high impact companies. I would love to see you talk to Ashley, you talk to real the real co founder, you know, real therapy platform.
Unknown Speaker 48:20
I've heard about them. I mean, I love what they're doing.
Jordan Crook 48:23
Yeah. And there's there's a couple others that are like all kind of like, in the same. They're different companies you like not? You're not competing at all, but like in the same vein of like, what if we were real? And like cared about one another? That would be Yeah, cool. You know? Yeah, like, let's try.
Ashley Sumner 48:39
Totally, I mean, and I think especially as like we are coming, we're getting back into seeing people in person and spending time with people. And there's like, even anxiety attached to that, a lot of that, I think, is because we just had this opportunity to either realign or figure out what we care about. And a lot of the people we've previously spent a lot of time with are no longer the people that are in alignment to those things. And so we are all kind of seeking new spaces both digitally and offline, to come together where we feel good, and where other people are on the same page. And that's, you know, a lot of social platforms just go and connect you to people that you know, in the real world in a new format digitally, and quilt people are coming on not knowing anyone in over the course of a day a week or a month like meeting new people and making and becoming best friends and getting on planes and connecting and there's such a form of healing in that in the same way that like real is really like tackling and D stigmatizing and doing a lot of great education around therapy again, because it is time to shift the ways we seek and get support either professionally or from others. So I'm excited.
Jordan Crook 49:56
Yeah, I am not I feel great. Way to go found podcast right here invigorating things.
Ashley Sumner 50:06
I get y'all. I'm gonna leave this feeling better
Darrell Etherington 50:14
All right, well, that was our chat with Ashley Sumner, who's CEO and founder of quilt once again. And it was great. It was it felt like what I imagined she's trying to achieve with quilt like it felt refreshing and rejuvenating. You know, look, we feel good about humanity. I
Jordan Crook 50:32
would say, I feel like I invested in myself. I participating.
Darrell Etherington 50:35
Yes, you did. Thanks for your participation,
Jordan Crook 50:39
engagement, high value engagement right there. I really like Ashley, I liked her when I was first interviewed her to write about quill. She was like the typical founder, not that there's such a thing as the typical founder, everyone is a unique snowflake. But she's very different, I think from what we're used to seeing. And she brings in a different approach and attitude. And it was cool to hear her talk about it.
Darrell Etherington 51:00
One thing that I think is really interesting about Ashley is that she comes from this background that's totally disassociated from Tech. It's this event planning milieu that is really unique for somebody that's building a startup and I think it gives you a totally different perspective on how to build a social network versus people with high recognition like the Dorsey's in Zuckerberg, or whatever, right? Because they were all coming at totally the other way around. Arguably, none of those people were great at Community IRL and so went a different route, but I don't want to judge maybe they were cool to hang out with doesn't seem like
Jordan Crook 51:36
feel at all that way. But maybe I also just think like Ashley is so cool for I truly believe she talked a lot about thinking about the long term effects, both good and bad of what she builds. And I feel like that's kind of like this party line for a lot of startup founders. Whereas with her, I feel like she means it like she actually has a healthy fear of what has been built thus far and what it's done to us and to our planet. And approaches things that way. And that's really refreshing perspective. Yeah, founder, unfortunately,
Darrell Etherington 52:08
I think that's the difference. Like Ashley really understands what happens when community dynamics are poisonous or just you know, bad, right? Which is, as you said, refreshing
Jordan Crook 52:19
hopefully, all of you feel the same way and if not, you know, you could call that voicemail and let us know why.
Darrell Etherington 52:25
Love to hear Yeah, and then also reevaluate your life.
Jordan Crook 52:29
Like take a look real hard look in a mirror maybe
Darrell Etherington 52:31
Yeah, take take a look quick look, anyways, not that we're we're coming I'm pretty aggressive but what we really want you to do. Go to Apple podcasts and review it's five stars. Best rating, pivot. Leave us really detailed complimentary reviews, which we will read on air if we receive enough of them and we find the very compelling so go do that
Jordan Crook 52:56
as well. Whenever that day comes.
Darrell Etherington 53:00
Found is hosted by myself, TechCrunch news editor Darrell Etherington and TechCrunch Managing Editor Jordan crook. We are produced by a shed Pokorny and edited by Grace Mendenhall TechCrunch his audio products are managed by Henry pic of it. Our guest this week was Ashley Sumner, founder and CEO at Quilt. You can find us on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and on twitter@twitter.com slash fan. You can also email us at found@techcrunch.com. And you can call us as I mentioned multiple times is episode 510-936-1618. Thanks for listening and we'll be back next week.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai